Once again you attempt to quash free speech. People who read newsites are aware of you and Shelly's agenda and those who are educated aren't buying it anymore. Go away!

While not rising to the level of a Patch offense, I for one would NOT like jollygirl to go away. Nothing is learning from folks preaching to the choir. Please be courteous.

That's fine! I'll try not to bother myself by reading the Patch! Jolly and Shelly intimidated many a poster on OC Register currently and in the past. It's nothing new. They have their own choir.

I love the fact that the OCR finally had to require posters to identify themselves. While it cut way down on the posts it also cut way down on personal attacks and vitriol. What a shame that some think anonymity is a license to defame.

OC mom,
What exactly is my agenda? My agenda is education. I am a parent. A parent whose 4 children attend 3 CUSD schools. What exactly is your agenda? I will not label you because I do not know or your agenda. You are free to post your opinions here but it is a comment board and not everyone is going to agree with you. You are telling Jollygirl to "Go away!" because you do not agree with her. Is this how you teach your own children to debate? The only person who is advocating quashing free speech is you by asking Jollygirl to "Go away!" So at work or in a social situation when someone is polite but does not agree with you do you shout, "Go away!" at them?

OC mom,
I have not posted on the OC Register for a while now so how recently are you talking about. I have always posted under my name. I have been called names and been vulgarly insulted for being a stay at home mom with multiple children on the OC register simply for defending my children's schools and teachers. Really vulgar stuff. But I know that when I post people are not always going to agree with me and not everyone is polite or will respond respectfully. I try to respond how I would want my children to respond. Please read my posts and tell me how I intimidate anyone. Please find one post where I have called someone a name or shouted, "Go away!" or any insulting command.
My children, their schools, their teachers, accepting others for who they are and public education are things that I passionately support. I have a different view and experience than you. And that is okay.

I am involved in my children's education. I do not expect or want the teachers, schools administrators to do everything for my children. I know that they cannot. I am willing to take responsibility for my childrens education and do what I can to help.

So you're saying that borrowing nearly 30% of your budget is not binge borrowing? Sounds like union math to me.

Greg,
What exactly is union math? I am a parent and not a union member. Why do so many assume that people I am union just because I do not agree with the agenda of cutting teachers pay, pensions and benefits. I know who has my kids back and it is not the conservative people on this blog who keep saying that teachers are in it for the money. Volunteer in your kids class and see how hard teachers work and how much they care about your child and the children they teach.

Almost every school district is borrowing money because of how the state is funding districts. Union math or any math. Do you want the schools to stay open or not?

So what do you suggest? Shorten the school year? Increase class sizes? Cut salaries and benefits more? That is what happened with the former board and that is what will happen again if we, the public do not help. Simple vote yes or no but then don't complain about what happens.

Would you care to comment on the article?

"Capo Borrows Record Sums as State Defers Payments"

Did you consider the actions of the new board in the pay kick backs they gave to the teachers virtually the minute they came into office? If they had followed the terms of the contract, they could have saved millions for the district. Instead, they rewarded the unions that got them elected. That has negative connotations for the fiscal stability of the district.

Greg,
Did you consider the fact that the former board signed the trigger language into the contract and the state increased the ADA money coming to our district so the trigger was pulled?

If the former board would have just negotiated cuts in the first place instead of imposing there would have been no trigger language. The cuts would have been for the length of the contract and there would have been no trigger to pull.

So if you have a problem with the trigger language you should take it up with the former board. There are still 4 of them on the board. Trustees Addonizio, Palazzo, Brick and Bryson were on the previous board and all ran as reform trustees against union endorsed candidates. The current board is 4 reform trustees and 3 non reform trustees. The former board still has majority vote.

Thanks, Penny.

Well stated Penny and much appreciated clarification.

Hi Jim. When did Mr. Lebs say that? Was it published? That's not what I was told in researching this story: http://patch.com/A-frV1

Unfortunately, I think deferrals are like crack cocaine for the legislators. They can't kick the habit because they've dug themselves into such a hole. Gov. Brown's budget will start tackling the deferment problem. But only if voters approve new (albeit temporary) taxes.

Hi Penny,

Keep up the good reporting. It helps people to understand what is actually happening.

Ron Lebs made the comment I quoted in budget presentations before the Trustees back when Woodrow Carter was Superintendent. Carter hired Mr. Lebs. Of course, in those days, we had a different Board majority who cared, at least a little, about the fiscal solvency of the school district.

I'm sure Mr. Lebs changed his tune after the election. The current Board majority cares only for fully funding the union contract, even at the risk of insolvency. Perhaps this bias had something to do with Mr. Leb's decision to depart.

You've already noticed that School Services (a respected private consultancy) recommends against including deferred funds in a budget. The OC Department of Education has taken the same position. But once the Legislature relieved the OCDE of its obligation to certify CUSD's budget, their role became moot.

Finally, I agree. Nobody wants CUSD to shorten the school year by three weeks. Perhaps those who have so assiduously protected the privileges of senior union members could offer an alternative to closing the schools?

Don't hold your breath waiting to hear from them.

Mr. Reardon, so you agree that CUSD and CUEA do not want to shorten the school year. What are your solutions for the budget crisis?

Jim, I found the quotes. It came from the Feb. 9, 2009 meeting. Here's the audio (starts around 41:25 http://cusd.capousd.org/cusdweb/boardaudio/2-09-09/02-09-09Meeting.mp3) and here's the Power Point from that presentation http://capousd.ca.schoolloop.com/file/1218998864154/4699097598089563252.pdf (fifth slide)

Quotes from that meeting (for those who do not want to click through):

"If we're deferring revenue from one year to the next, it really becomes a cut."

and

"A deferral needs to be treated as a cut."

The PP slide says: A permanent deferral = cut

Penny, you're amazing. I was in the room when Ron Lebs said that. I approached him afterwards and complimented him on his candor. I'd forgotten about the PowerPoint.

The current Board of Trustees would do well to review that audio. And they should realize that the staff isn't going to defy the sentiment of a majority of board members, which is with the union (having incurred a large debt in the last election), in order to lay an opposing opinion on the table.

Funding for education begins and ends in Sacramento. Revenue for the state government has fallen dramatically. The whole state economy is in deep trouble. Legislators and the Governor have dished out some tough medicine by killing redevelopment agencies, which will hurt incumbents of both political parties. But it needed to be done and the school budgets are the principal beneficiaries of this move.

The shot in the arm from redevelopment is already in this year's budget and we're still way under water.

With thousands of people being tossed out of work as a result, and cities throughout the state taking a huge financial hit as they watch their redevelopment and affordable housing initiatives suffocate, what will CUSD do?

It is time to recognize that no matter how friendly you are with the union, the Trustees job is to cut costs AND maintain education quality.

Mr. Reardon, your charges of union collusion with the board are groundless, although they certainly serve you well as a tool to divert attention from the real issues. Please show any proof of all of these charges. The current board is made up of a majority who were not backed by the union. What are your solutions for the funding crisis? Perhaps you didn't see my previous post asking this question.

Well thank you, but as much as I'd like to leave the readers with the impression that I hunted all day, I really found that meeting with the on-point quotes on the first try! Sometimes, you just get lucky ...

Shelly, I'm not sure it's accurate to say that all school districts will face cuts even if the taxes do pass. Gov. Brown's budget includes MORE money for schools next year than it offered this year (if the taxes pass). However, CUSD will still need to cut some (we'll get a more precise number as we move along in the budget process) because of several factors, among which include declining enrollment, the exhaustion of one-time funds and steady depletion of other accounts that are now being tapped to stay afloat, i.e. deferred maintenance.

Especially since all districts are not funded the same.

"Still even if the Governor's proposal wins out budgets will still need to be cut, salaries and benefits cut and programs cut."

That is simply not true. Putting aside the Governor's gimmicky budget, cuts do not have to be made to education. That is simply Brown's attempt to scare people into voting for the increased taxes he wants. If you bothered to read the stories about the budget, you would know that Brown is proposing increasing the budget by 6 or 7%. If he simply maintained the same budget as last year, or heaven forbid REALLY cut the budget, there would be no need for further cuts if the tax increases are rejected because the $6 billion he is proposing increasing the budget would cover the lost "revenue" from the rejection of tax increases.

Greg,
I don't know if what I say is "simply not true" given that in the last couple of years since the economy tanked education has been a target.
Gimmicky? K-12 and higher education funding has been cut every year since the economy tanked. Governor Brown actually didn't cut education this year as much as he could have because education had already been cut.. And Brown may be increasing the budget 6 to 7% but it is a budge that has already been slashed.

Our class sizes are bigger and programs have been cut. Are you satisfied with the status quo and the same funding for education? I'm not.

As a country we should actually value educaton. And value the people who work in education. Now since we are in a financial crisis some call teachers hacks, only in it for the money, and not as intelligent as other professions. These are people who previously had nothing but praise for teachers. So to me it seems like it is all about the money for the critics not the teachers.

Finland has teachers union and almost all schools are public and their students are highly educated. They value education.

We, the public, had better stop nickle and diming education and start viewing our taxes that go into education as investments into our countries future.

Yes, half-cent more for sales tax and additional income taxes on people who make more than $250,000.

Thanks Penny, I think we can handle that in the interests of our children. Some believe that just teachers and other school employees should shoulder the burden. I wonder if there is any way to find out just how much of a pay cut would solve the fiscal problem in CUSD?

It wouldn't be difficult to figure out. IIRC, I believe the average, round number for cost-per-teacher is $100,000 (includes salary, benefits, pension). The district must cut $1.7 million by February off of this year's budget, and $23.5 million by June's end for next year's budget. The math is easy from there.

Wouldn't we have to know how many teachers? Is it around 3000? Sorry but I don't know what your source is for average salary, etc. It is always amusing when people want to add benefits to teachers average salary when benefits are not figured into other salary figures (expense accts., car allowance, bonuses, or health and pensions/401k's). But I digress.
Would salary cuts be based on this years budget or potential future budget cuts? Would districts build up reserves with salary cuts?
With projections so hard to predict how would that work? Retroactive salary cuts?
And would posters recognize pastor future salary/benefit cuts...oops, digressing again.

JG, if I'm remembering correctly, it was from the budget forum the district held so that the community could discuss the budget last year. That, or a school board meeting. I get all my info from the school district itself, occasionally the Fiscal Report from School Services of California (a CUSD consultant) and the state and county departments of education.

You haven't kept up with the pinkslips, jollygirl. But then you don't live in the district or have any kids in CUSD, do you? According to cde reports there are 2120 teachers in CUSD. Average salary is available from the SARC. Last time I checked it was about $78,000 direct burdened payroll expense per teacher adds approximately 32%, so Penny's number is close.

And mention of crack cocaine is also apt. I doubt the public will vote to tax itself to put more money in the hands of those who have demonstrated they cannot manage it responsibly. That would be like giving money to a junkie.

Habermill's statement is interesting. I think even he is sensing which way the wind is blowing.

To be fair, I think it was the the Legislative Analyst's Office (LAO) that likened the state's dependence on deferrals to an addition.

More like a subtraction or an erosion than an addition, I'd say ;)

LOL, funny typo. I meant addiction. But I guess the deferrals keep "adding."

Exactly Capomom and from what I've read Garden Grove unified hasn't had all of the cuts we've had. Our district spent to much building the district headquarters and San Juan Hills High School when the economy was good. They didn't keep enough reserves for that "rainy day" we're having now. The whole SJHHS fiasco is another issue that was discussed in the film "Not as Good as You Think." The school is built near a natural gas line as well as being under high voltage. Not to mention Mr. Fleming the former Superintendent's 18 year old son being given a $100K a year drywalling job on the school. Our district is corrupt and we thought the reform candidates would change things and they did when they tried to make the teachers take some pay cuts, but the last election was won by the Union backed candidates who restored that paycut and do not have the interests of the students in mind. Some of us are very much awake Jolly and Shelly. Even though the last election I received deceptive phone messages from supposed conservative candidates and mailers from those candidates when in reality they were the union backed candidates. Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me. The parents in CUSD are fed up, the economy is bad and they've taken paycuts and their homes have lost value. It's time that the teachers take a cut again.

Districts are not equally funded so they cannot be compared when cuts are made. I would be interested in your solutions for the current crisis. If it is cuts in salary and benefits please offer some figures as to what percentage would be necessary to fill the gap. And please answer my questions about whether you support retroactive pay cuts or cuts to build reserves for future unknown cuts.
The district you mention also works with their employees to find solutions. Many teachers in many districts have taken cuts, were willing to do so (including CUSD teachers both before and after the strike), and realize more are sure to come. CUSD is finally working with all stakeholders to look for solutions and no matter how many times some say it is collusion, it is not. It is simply the right thing to do. Many districts restored furlough days because it was the right thing to do when more funds than expected came from the state. I'm not sure why you and other posters prefer a divisive approach in CUSD. Let's all work together just as they do in all of our neighboring districts.

"CUSD (meaning the community of students, families and taxpayers) may not wat to shorten the school year,"

You do realize that teachers also have students in the district and pay taxes...are you excluding them from the community?

OC Mom,

Because the former board imposed a contract and did not negotiate they then had to go back and negotiate trigger language into the final contract. If you have a problem with the language of the contract then you should take it up with the former board because they are the ones who signed it.

As to the history of the district building and SJHHS and budget reserves at the time I really suggest that you do some research and check out the numbers.

I did not agree with the building of the district building and the high school in fact I voted against the high school being built by the dump when it was a ballot issue in SJC. I wrote letters before the administration building broke ground instead of after the fact. But they are both here. But you have an issue with the reserves. If you look back at the budgets at the time when those were built and after CUSD maintained their reserves . Instead of just stating what you think is true you might want to actually do research. The reserves went down when the economy tanked. The reserves decreased under the previous board. Please research this for yourself.

Garden Grove has had cuts just like us. Furlough days and increased class sizes in Garden Grove.

All school districts face drastic cuts. Not because of teachers or their boards of trustees but because the economy tanked.

OC Mom,
After the fact even though I still believe the location of the high school is not the best I am very happy it is here. CUSD did need a new high school because the other high schools were impacted. And SJHHS is a beautiful school with great teachers. I know this because my oldest is graduating from this school and has received a great education and fun high school experience. The building of the new high school allowed for more choices for parents and students. The building of the new high school I believe came out of building funds not the general fund.

Shelly, you are correct that "Because the former board imposed a contract and did not negotiate they then had to go back and negotiate trigger language into the final contract." However, you ignore the fact that the trigger language had not yet occurred when the new board gave the union members' money back. Had they waited until the proper time, the district would have saved considerable resources.

These are not facts...

Capo mom,

The CUSD teachers went on strike to protest an imposed contract. Most teachers in Callifornia took pay cuts and did not go on strike because their districts worked with the teachers and parents to find a solution. CUSD teachers agreed to the pay cuts of the fact finder. They also agreed to the pay cuts after the strike. The amount of the pay cuts after the strike was almost identical to the amount before except the cuts were not permanent after the strike. Please check it out for yourselves.

Jollygirl is a teacher who worked for years to educate children. I do not know her but I thank her for her service to our society and children. I do not understand why you constantly insult her for being a teacher and working and being loyal to our schools.

I do not know how many years she worked for our district or how many children she educated or how successful they are now. Do you, Capo mom? Do you say the same to fire fighters and police officers who spend their careers saving lives.
"Go cash your benefit check..." fire fighers and police officers, "and don't forget to laugh along the way."

Read up on Finland and how they value their teachers and education.

Capo mom,
What do you define as "benefit check" and as I asked before would you say the same thing to fire fighters and police officers who are also public employees?

Truer words were never spoken. I hope more parents become aware of what has happened in our district.

I think you placed your comment under the wrong post but, gosh, thanks OC Mom...

Penny,

There is no uncertainty about what will happen in November, no matter who is elected.

Even if a tax increase were to be approved by the voters, tax revenues will not rise. You can't squeeze blood from a corpse and the state economy is beyond even rigor mortis. Decay has begun and conspicuous taxpayers are leaving the state in droves to let trapped pensioners pay the bills.

Public employee unions and creatures of government are living in an artificial world, keep viable by the notion that "the future is uncertain". But it's not.

So to summarize your statement and follow it to it's logical conclusion..you feel the state is doomed, there is nothing that can be done, and it is all the fault of the unions. So now if we dismantle the unions, take away pension benefits that were promised over 30 years ago (and contributed to by every teacher), slash current salaries and benefits (could you give us a figure on that?) then all will be well and "conspicuous taxpayers" (whatever on earth that means) will stay in the state with pensioners (who will be living on the streets because you will take away their pensions). Sounds like a much better place to live Mr. Reardon. Thanks for the solution. Is there any way you might decide to leave the state? Are you one of the conspicuous taxpayers?

And this is your real concern with education jollygirl ... not education per se, not fiscal responsibility but that your own pension may be at risk.

You do realize that, although you contributed to your pension, the major contribution comes from the taxpayers of the state of California, don't you? And that you are in direct competition with our students for those scarce resources?

Actually, to be truthful, the major contributor to calSTRS pensions are the proceeds from investments of the fund. Your analysis of my post shows that you are really only interested in one thing...making sure that people know that you think you know who I am and what my motives are. Not very interesting to anyone else. And very unsuccessful in getting me to go away.

Jim Reardon,
Can you please show proof to your statement, "conspicious taxpayers are leaving the states in droves" ?
Thanks.

JG, it's a nice day. Why don't we go outside?

But beforehand,

1. The state is not doomed. However, some public employee unions are actively trying to protect their own interests above those of everyone else.

2. This problem is solvable if people are honest in their intentions.

3. You've not heard me advocate dismantling the unions. I believe the laws that require employees to be members of unions should be repealed. Then let the employees ("workers") decide about the unions.

4. "Taking away" a pension benefit is illegal and immoral. However, promising a pension benefit that you cannot pay is also. Forward pension commitments must be scaled-back. What's earned is earned. What's promised is done.

5. A 10 or 12 percent reduction in employee cost is not a "slash". Outside of education and government, employee costs have been cut by significantly more. It's a sad reflection of our times.

6. Pensioners will not lose their pensions to people like me. Instead, their pensions will be taxed by people like you. It's already happening.

What you don't seem to realize is that if the demands of your crowd are not moderated, then CUSD and other agencies will be insolvent. Through bankruptcy, the pension promises will be unwound in court and promises will be broken. Not by my ideas, but by your failure to comprehend what is actually happening.

Now, let's go outside...

1. Protecting one's interests is not a bad thing. And it does not follow that it is above those of everyone else. Union employees have been making big concessions in the last few years...because they know it is necessary.
2. I totally agree. The first step is for all stakeholders in CUSD to work together. With the current balanced board this is happening again.
3. I was teaching in CUSD when the employees voted to become a closed shop. It was a decision made by the teachers. The union is required to represent all of the teachers and so they voted to make it mandatory for all teachers to join. I know of no law that requires teachers to join a union....otherwise charter school teachers could not opt out.
4. Teachers are well aware that future pension contributions and benefits may well change...it has happened before. If it were legal to change them retroactively there would be no point in negotiating them in the first place. All teacher benefits were negotiated in order to attract the best candidates to what has historically been a profession that pays less than those requiring similar education and training.
5. 10% decreases have already taken place in many districts. It becomes a slash when they are demanded year after year with no recognition that they ever took place.
6. Retired teachers have always paid taxes on their pensions. And both you and I receive the benefits paid by every taxpayer.

"My crowd" is making no demands. It is made up of me and many of my colleagues who are willing to work together to find solutions to the crisis. Your insistence on divisive tactics, lawsuits, and condescending remarks about understanding the history of school finance which we have lived for many years before you every became involved will do little to help solve the problem. Quit pointing fingers, suing, and lecturing, and join the rest of us who care about the schools enough to speak civilly, respect all of the stakeholders, and work together. Go to a board meeting without your lawyer and offer some solutions.

Again...these are your opinions, not facts. And I am assuming that you will continue to make this personal...too bad. It just serves to distract from the issues and makes assumptions that are as erroneous about me as they are about the issues.

Capo mom,
In case you haven't noticed (and maybe you haven't because you have a singular intent on blaming everything on teachers and the union) the whole state, country and world is one big financial crisis not because of teachers and unions but because of banks, corporations and people's irresponsible spending habits.

You are right the former board did give back to some of its benefactors when 4 of the 7 trustees did not recuse themselves from voting to award their "benefactors" and supporters settlement money. Conservative voters of CUSD did not like this fact that was reported in the OC Register which is an extremely conservative paper. I also believe that many parents and voters did not like the way the former board treated and spoke about teachers. You can label them as pensioners or union but they are teachers first. And they work with our kids. If these teachers are so bad and greedy and not as intelligent as other professionals (as you have stated before) and our CUSD schools so bad then why do you, Capo mom, have your children in CUSD schools?

The economy tanked and we have a choice. We can choose not to help and whine about how we pay too much and its everybody else's fault or we can temporary help education right now until the economy picks up so that schools and programs will not need to be drastically cut. Education is the key to everyone's future. All of us.

Do we value education or not?

Who exactly are you calling crack addicts?

Penny, I think your article does say that CUSD is $100 million in debt. At paragraph 4, "The combined $100 million in loans represents 27 percent of the district’s $372-million budget."

I think it is fair to say that if you have $100 million in loans, you're in debt.

CUSD may be able to payoff some of this debt by April, assuming the state follows through on their commitments, but more than $20 million in debt will remain at the end of the budgetary period and CUSD will be going right back to the borrowing window at the beginning of the next fiscal year. How much money they'll need at that time depends on the new state budget -- yet unseen.

If I can make a prediction, the state budget will include revenue from the as yet unapproved tax increases proposed by the Governor. Thus, we are shown another house of cards. Just as the current budget counted almost $2 billion in revenue from dissolution of the the redevelopment agencies, the next budget premise assumes the voters will tax themselves. And in just the same way, the revenue estimate from redevelopment was overestimated by $800 million. And the revenue estimate from the proposed tax increase are vastly overestimated as well.

Everytime CUSD goes forward under such conditions, it faces an increase in deferred state support. The deferral will break the back of the district.

Yes, it's debt in the sense that it's a loan that must be repaid. I did think of that as I was writing. The difference between this debt and say a mortgage is that when we take out a mortgage, we HOPE we can continue to work at the same wages that would pay off the loan. With the schools, they are guaranteed that money. It's a sure thing. (Until it's not, which I recognize, is the concern of many critical of the state's budgeting over the years, that someday, the house of cards will fall.)

At least be honest jollygirl.
You aren't a teacher now.
I know where the funding comes from - that is why I am concerned with fiscal responsibility at the district level.

The more interesting questions are;
Where do you imagine the rest of the funds come from?
And given that voters have already failed to pass taxes to finance schools, how do you propose to resolve this situation.

Capo mom,
How do you propose to balance the budget since you have stated, "There are lots of ways to balance a budget."

Pick a fiscally responsible alternative.

What would you propose, shelly?

And will you be honest in return? Are you really a Mom? Where do you live? Do you care about everyone's child or just your own? What is your source of income? Did you earn it honestly or are you profiting at the expense of someone else? Do you have a vested financial or political interest in returning one or more of the former board members? Is this about you? Or me? Is it in everyone's best interests to work together to find solutions? Or would it be better for you if the district failed and you had a voucher to go to a private school? Would your child be guaranteed a place in that school regardless of ability, race, religion or how much you donated?

BTW, I plan on voting for the tax increase because, whether or not I have children in school (since that is not a requirement to have an opinion or a stake in public education), I believe a strong public school system benefits everyone. And I want the best candidates to consider teaching as a profession.

Capo mom,
I already answered it above. I will vote yes on the tax proposal. I value public education. I don't want a shortened school year or more kids in the classroom or more programs cut. We are in a financial crisis and I will vote to be part of the solution.

jollygirl since you believe these issues are relevant, will you answer your own questions about yourself before you put them to others?

Since you haven't done so, what are we to assume from your failure?

Here goes, for my part.
I am really a mom.
I live in San Juan Capistrano.
The source of my income is my paycheck, not a pension.
I come by it honestly.
I have no financial interest in school district politics. Can you say the same?
This isn't about me.
It might be about you.
Define "best interests" and I'll answer whether it is in everyone's best interests to work together.
It is immaterial to me whether the district goes bankrupt and I got vouchers for my children to go to private school. How might that effect you?
My children and everyone else's are guaranteed a free and appropriate public education. Isn't that great?
My family has donated between 8% and 11% to charity for the last 10 years. About half of that has gone to education. You? Contributions to political causes or unions don't count as charity.

Your turn ... and since you think everyone else can afford a half percent increase in their sales tax, please do answer how you imagine CalSTERS is really paid for and whether one of the primary benefits of the proposed tax increase will be propping up CalSTERS?

Let's see what is relevant here...
I am a stakeholder in CUSD just like you.
I am a Mom too :).
The source of my income has been come by honestly just like yours (although without knowing the source it might be debatable about how honestly you came by it).
I also have no financial interest in school board politics (and am not friends with or related to anyone who might run or who has run).
As stakeholders it is about both of us...but no more than any other stakeholder.
I do not wish CUSD to go bankrupt (whether or not they pay my salary). I am a strong believer in public schools which do not choose who attends. I think that is the best and only way to guarantee a free, equal education to all. If that is not happening then it is up to us to make sure it does.
I have donated more money than you have to the public schools...and that is a guarantee with a cross my heart added on.
And calSTRS is funded through contributions from employees, districts and the state. The benefits are paid from the proceeds made by investing those funds. And those funds are secure for the next 30 years or so...even with the losses sustained through investments (which mirror those losses made by every other entity who invested). No one is questioning whether the fund was negligent in their fiduciary responsibility...too much oversight for that. Solutions for potential actuarially predicted shortfalls over the longterm are already being addressed. The nov. tax will not be used for that.

Concerned Parent,
"A report from the Public Policy Institute of California shows the poor are more likely to leave California than the wealthy.

Tax critics often claim the state's high cost of living and tax structure drive high-income earners out.

The institute study, released Friday, found the rich — those in the top 20 percent of income earners — leave California at about the same rate as they arrive.

When they do leave, states with no income tax such as Nevada, Texas and Washington are among their top destinations. Those states also are among the top draws for the bottom 20 percent of income earners.

Texas and Washington also export some of their wealthiest residents to California each year.

The report is based on data from the state Department of Finance and the U.S. Census. "

http://www.ppic.org/content/pubs/jtf/JTF_LeavingCAJTF.pdf

Concerned parent,
It is no secret that the state is in financial crisis and many families are affected. That is exactly my point. This is a statewide (countrywide, and worldwide) financial crisis. Leaving the state may or may not help. But it is certainly their right to do so.
Where I disagree with you is that CUSD can solve the crisis. They have no power in pension reform. They can lower salaries and they have done so. They can (and most likely will) lower them more. Do you have a percentage that you would deem acceptable? The families that you mention did not leave the state because of anything that CUSD did or did not do. But the families of teachers may.
As for the state...at some point diminished revenues will have to be replenished. People leaving the state are taking their taxes with them...leaving you and me to make up the difference...or learn to live with fewer of the benefits our taxes pay for. A shorter school year, longer response time for emergency services, potholes, fewer social safety nets for those who need them...all of these are already happening. How much more are you willing to sacrifice before you realize that paying .5% more in sales tax and asking people making over $250,000 to pay a little more tax is something that you can handle? It looks like we may find out.

capo mom,
The data came from the census. Yes the data is old as is the data that Concerned Parent is citing. I will try and find more recent data.

Also,
How do you propose to balance the budget since you have stated, "There are lots of ways to balance a budget."

"As for the state...at some point diminished revenues will have to be replenished."

Really ??????
Why?

People with means move to protect their assets.
People without means stay put.

Read Steve Jobs biography. How do you think California will be attractive to future wealth creators if they must pay for the idiocy of the past?

Balance the budget?
Don't spend more money than you have.

Capo mom, you are a master of ducking the questions. Don't spend the money on what? Come on I know you can say it...do you mean spend less money on salaries and benefits (they have no control over pension benefits since that is decided at the state level)? Be clear. And tell us how much you would be willing to cut there. And would you be willing to cut more next year and the year after that? Whatever it takes, right? And when all of the teachers have left because they can't support their families here, we will have brand new teachers who are less expensive. Right? And they can do the job just as well...you have statistics to prove that, right? So when was the last time you requested that your child be placed in the brand new, cheaper, teacher's classroom? I agree with you...there are some very capable, even brilliant, new teachers. I have worked right alongside of them. And I helped them through many new teacher issues...including how to deal with a difficult child, parent, lesson that didn't go well. But you don't need expensive teachers like me. I will eventually drain the trough with my pension. Keep teachers around for a year, or two or even 5. Then expect them to keep the same salary without raises or benefits for the rest of their career. They'll hang around just for you. Or they won't and will be replaced. No problem. No one ever benefitted from experience...in any field.

Capo mom,
That is simple. Why don't you tell us how that will work for CUSD. Please be specific. Please tell us which programs you will cut. How many more kids will you put in the classroom? Since you have stated that you understand the funding and the budget please let us know what specifically you would do to balance the budget in CUSD. Thanks.

jollygirl,
please tell the truth.
You are not currently employed as a teacher.

I totally agree with you. Jollygirl would rather pepper Capo Mom and others with personal questions trying to find out their identity and intimidate them. Shelly and Jolly dominated OC Register blogs during the school board election and have a proven tactic of intimidation and harrassment of others who have different viewpoints than theirs.

The middle class is leaving CA. What Jolly and Shelly don't realize is that the more taxpayers who leave will in fact leave them with large masses of people on unemployment or welfare. I also know of 4 families who've relocated in the last year. Companies are relocating to other states as well. Raising taxes is not the answer. Learning to live within the budget like most families are doing these days and cut things that aren't necessary is what needs to be done. Most people have taken a hit to their income and teachers should be able to

OC Mom,
Since the irony was lost on you...the purpose of my questions to Capo mom was to highlight how personal information is not relevant to this discussion. As you can see she was just as reluctant to share such information as I am. And yet she continues to post misleading information about who she thinks I am in order to make a point. I don't care who either of you are. Mr. Reardon chooses to post as himself. Good for him. I would really prefer to do that but I tried that once and it backfired with negative consequences so I no longer do. I would appreciate it very much if Capo mom would back off on her cyber stalking and get on with the issues.
You all may be very nice people. I am. I am really quite a nice person and thought of very highly of by people who know me. I am close friends with people who have different views that I do. We treat each other with respect when we discuss those views. I wish we could do that here.

OC Mom,
Please cite your sources where taxpayers are leaving. The source of the Public Policy Institute of California is the US Census.

I know multiple families who have moved here and have left private schools to attend CUSD schools either because they can no longer afford them, the private schools did not have high level AP classes or they have conflicting discipline policies.

If you read the comment board of the OCR maybe you read some of the vulgar insults that were written towards me. I try not to insult or attack. I question. I also check my facts and try not to post anything that I have not cited or read because it is so easy to google facts. Please post some of my "intimidating comments".

I have never commanded anyone to "Go away!" simply because I don't agree with them.

My agenda is my children, public education for all and respecting people for who they are. I am a parent. Really! That is who I am, a parent, who is concerned about my children's education and public education. I am willing to be part of the solution for education and plan to vote yes. If the public chooses not to pay a little more in taxes then we have not one else to blame.

If we simply must spend what we receive then schools would shut down now becaue of the way schools are funded. If we choose to simply spend only what we are currently receiving then we must cut programs, increase class sizes and shorten the school year. It is our choice.

I know you are not a particularly careful reader , jollygirl but I did answer your questions, all of them.
One would think if you thought the answers to your own questions were relevant to the discussion you'd offer them. But then actions speak louder than words.

As for shelly's question, How not spending more money than the district doesn't have would works in CUSD?
Rather well-that would be my answer.

Capo mom,
"How not spending more money than the district doesn't have would works in CUSD?
Rather well-that would be my answer."

So as per budget projections you believe cutting more programs, increasing class sizes, shortening the school year will work, "rather well" for CUSD schools and our children's education?

Capo mom, you are having the same difficulty I am in locating the responses to your posts. This thread is getting a little hard to navigate...which may be a indication that it has outlived its helpfulness. Scroll up to find my answers. They appeared in your email before they appeared on the board...which often happens. Is that why your posts are the only ones that are duplicated two and sometimes three times in my email? Be patient before you post again. My ego can't take more than one copy of them. Or we could start over and let all the personal stuff go and stick to the issues? I will if you will...

Oops here is the correct link.
http://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2011/12/what-americans-keep-ignoring-about-finlands-school-success/250564/

RSM Dad,
How will you vote on raising taxes for education? yes or no? and if programs are cut and class sizes increased and the school year shortened are you willing to own your vote and the consequences without putting all the blame on the teachers, administrators and union when schools are drastically cut?.

I believe that it is not only the responsibility of the teachers, administrators and staff to fix the financial crisis in our state. I believe that we also have responsibility? Do you believe that we have no responsibility?

I plan on voting yes. I teach my kids that we are all in this together. And you should never ask others to do something that you are not willing to do yourself.

RSM Dad,

How about my opinion be a parent party line because that is what I am. I support what is best for the children of CUSD.

Teachers all over California did take a paycut. CUSD teachers took a paycut. So essentially you are saying that teachers should always take a paycut no matter how drastic, and parents and taxpayers (who are also teachers ) have no responsibility.

So for you it seems it really is not what is best for the children but it is political and what is best for you and your agenda.

RSM Dad,

As I said before I am not going to ask others to do something I am not willing to do myself.

My state and my district are in a financial crisis. And I don't plan on folding my hands and blaming others because I don't like it. We are all responsible for this crisis. Do I think some money has been misspent. yes. But I will try to help during this crisis because it is a crisis and will affect the children if I don't. I will vote yes. My agenda is for the children. I do not want more programs cut, bigger class sizes and shorter year.

Capo Parent,
Step and column increases I believe only occur after 5 year increments so teachers only get raises after working for the district for 5 years or if the teacher gets a higher degree on their own dime. They invest years of studying and thousands of dollars and bring the knowledge back to our district. And by staying in our district for five years and longer they keep their knowledge, training, experience, talent in our district.

OC Mom,
Teachers deserve a living wage. Are you saying they are paid too much?

What does being a woman have to do with anything? This is not the 1950's and being a teacher is not a hobby so that a housewife can bring in a little something extra for the cookie jar. Teaching is a career, a profession. Men and women both teach and support and raise families earning a living.

And if the combined income of a teacher and his or her spouse (man or woman) is $250,000 or more than they will be subject to the higher tax proposal. So what is your point?

I asked Capo Parent to clarify his statement. Read it.

Are you saying that teachers with mortgages, bills, families, college loans of their own and for their own kids should make way for kids right out of college? Are you stating simply because new teachers have loans that they should have a job over a teacher who has experience even though this teacher has no experience and may in fact not be a very good teacher because he or she has not been tested in the classroom. College professors have tenure. Public school teachers do not.

If the money is not there to hire the new teachers and you want them to be hired then vote yes.

Concerned parent,
$75,000 is an average. A first year teacher does not receive $75,000 or first class benefits.

If administrators do their jobs then teachers are hired, promoted and fired based on merit. I agree those who are the most effective in their jobs should be rewarded. How do you measure this?

Given your comments, then I assume you agree tenure for teachers should be abolished, and teaching jobs should be based on merit, not time on the job. I understand that defining merit is not easy, but it can be done in a reasonable, appropriate manner to address legitimate concerns regarding how merit is to be measured.

Capo parent,
Public school teachers do not have tenure.