Moms Talk: Banning Circumcision at Birth?
What topics get you heated around the coffee pot at the local mom's club? Read this week's hot topic and then tell us what you think!
Question: I read that some activists are putting a measure on a ballot that would ban circumcision at birth and fine those who choose to do it. Isn't this a personal decision? Can they be serious?
Answer: They can be quite serious. It all began in San Francisco, the same place where Happy Meals are now being banned for contributing to our nation's obesity problem (as though a pack of teeny chicken nuggets and a toy are the real reason our kids are getting plumper). Now they're threatening to slap a fine of $1,000 on those who do something that has been practiced since the Biblical times. They claim it is a human rights issue, that people are butchering their baby boys by allowing a doctor to perform this procedure. I had my three boys "go under the knife" and while I know it was a painful few minutes, I also know studies have shown for years that the health benefits far outweigh the momentary pain. But I also respect folks who choose not to do it. And that's just the point ... it's a personal choice, and should be kept that way. I believe there are bigger things to fret about.
Linda Musel
4:41 pm on Wednesday, June 1, 2011
Oh Please, leave the doctors to do their job and for many years, this practice has been done without any problems for the majority of young male infants. Saves problems down the road with less bacteria and infection when done at this stage of the male birthing.
Stan Barnes
6:30 pm on Thursday, June 2, 2011
If American doctors were doing their job, they would have ended the practice of non-religious, non-therapeutic male circumcision forty years ago when the American Academy of Pediatrics said in 1971 there is no valid medical indication for newborn circumcision.
Currently less than 25% of the boys born in California are circumcised at birth. As more and more parents learn that male circumcision is not necessary, they are saying no to male circumcision.
What parts should we cut off our infant daughters to reduce their problems down the road with bacteria and infections?
Christine
9:33 am on Thursday, June 2, 2011
Seriously? Is this really something that's even worth bringing up? I believe we have bigger problems than that and yes Cirumcision is definitely a personal choice and it should stay that way. Honestly, I believe if I had had a boy I most likely would have had it done. Just because it's "cleaner" and causes less problems later on in life, not for any religious reasons. Speaking of which, what about the Jewish population? Would they be exempt?
Stan Barnes
6:39 pm on Thursday, June 2, 2011
Male circumcision should be a "personal" choice, not a "parental" choice. It should be the "personal" choice of the person who is having a normal part of his body cut off without a compelling medical reason.
It is much harder for a woman with intact genitals to keep herself clean than it is for a man with intact genitals to keep himself clean. Somehow most American women manage to stay clean without their parents cutting parts off when they are infants. If we can teach our daughters how clean themselves, we can teach our sons how to clean themselves.
Martin Henderson
12:56 am on Friday, June 3, 2011
I knew an adult male who elected this surgery. He said it was quite painful. Most men who appreciate the benefits of circumcision are thankful it was done in their infancy. Very thankful. Sometimes, you have to let the parents parent. Some might choose for their sons to be "whole" and that's fine, but we shouldn't think any less of a parent who chooses to circumcise. And we certainly shouldn't legislate it. The girls to boys comparison is irrelevant. If, as Stan says, only 25% of boys in California are circumcised at birth, and parents are making smart decisions (as he sees it), then it further proves the point that it shouldn't be legislated. I do know this: People don't like being told what to do by others who should mind their own business. This is one of those areas where people should keep their noses in their own house.
Stan Barnes
11:57 pm on Friday, June 3, 2011
The comparison with female genital cutting is very relevant. Last year the American Academy of Pediatric proposed allowing doctors to make a small incision in the genitals of girls if her parents requested it for cultural reasons. Even though that form of female genital cutting is less damaging than male circumcision there was a public outcry and the AAP repealed its policy.
There is a growing number of men who don't like the fact that a normal part of our body was cut off without a compelling medical reason and without our consent. Doctors should have ended the practice of non-religious, non-therapeutic circumcision forty years ago when the AAP said there is no valid medical indication for newborn circumcision. There is no excuse for a medical doctor to cut off a normal part of a healthy boy's penis in 2011 especially if the boy's parents are not Muslim or Jewish.
Martin Henderson
1:42 am on Saturday, June 4, 2011
Stan, I'm going to go out on a limb and say you know more about the subject than me. However, my reference to relevance had little to do with cultural and everything to do with your comment about cleanliness, and the reasoning that since we can teach our daughters we can teach our sons and that's why it shouldn't be allowed (that is what you said previously). Maybe I'm wrong -- it wouldn't be the first time -- but it's apples and oranges. It sounds to me like you (or politicians) are trying to dictate whether I can make that choice for my son. The choice you make for your son is none of my business, and vice verse. Why take the option away only to leave an adult man with a painful decision later in life? More importantly, why is there a need to legislate it? That's the real question being asked here.
Hugh7
2:10 am on Saturday, June 4, 2011
The vast majority of intact adult men never have any "painful decision" later in life. They do have "a symphony of sensation" that circumcised men can no more imagine than a colourblind man can imagine green. Where circumcision is not customary (and doctors know more about the foreskin than how to cut it off), the lifetime risk of ever wanting it or needing it is one in thousands.
You realise that in the developed world, this custom is peculiar to the USA? The rest of the English-speaking world tried it (in Australia and New Zealand in the 1950s just as enthusiastically as the USA) , found it did no good, and has all but given it up - with no outbreak of any of the things it was supposed to be good for (and a generation of boys and men not looking like their fathers, and no problems there either).
The only reason US parents have this choice is that it is now pushed on them. Until the mid-twentieth century (when doctors were little tin gods) it was done without asking, and that is part of how it became customary. The other part is a string of bogus and exaggerated medical claims, now discredited.
There is no other normal, healthy, functional, non-renewable body part that parents are invited to cut off their children, and in fact it would be illegal to do so. It is illegal to tattoo a child. It is illegal to pierce a child's genitals. It is illegal to circumcise a cat or dog. This operation, a hangover from stone-age times, is out on its own.
Stan Barnes
10:34 pm on Monday, June 6, 2011
Martin, in my opinion the only person who has a right to decide to cut off a normal part of a male's genitals is the male himself when he is an adult. Your son should be allowed to make that choice for himself. When he is old enough to get his penis tattooed or pierced, he can decide if he wants to have a doctor cut part of it off.
It is not a painful decision for men in Europe or other non-circumcising cultures. For them, the idea of cutting off part of their penis is strange.
There would not be a need for a law if American doctors had the moral courage to end a harmful practice that their profession introduced into this country in the late eighteen hundreds. Medical doctors introduced non-religious, non-therapeutic male circumcision and they promoted it for decades.
It is past time for American doctors to stop cutting the genitals of healthy boys! If doctors do not have the decency to stop on their own, I am in favor of a law to protect children from unnecessary surgery.
Stan Barnes
10:40 pm on Monday, June 6, 2011
For a doctor to say that he or she only circumcises boys because parents request it is like a tobacco company executive saying that he or she only sells cigarettes because people buy them.
American parents circumcise their sons because medical doctors promoted the practice for decades. People smoke cigarettes because tobacco companies advertise them.
Clive
11:09 am on Saturday, June 4, 2011
Question for Stan Barnes and Hugh7. Are either of you circumcised and if so when was it done?
Stan Barnes
7:31 pm on Saturday, June 4, 2011
I was circumcised as an infant and wish that I had not been. It should have been my choice. There is no compelling medical reason to cut off a normal part of a healthy boy's penis.
Clive
7:12 pm on Monday, June 6, 2011
Stan, I wish I had been circumcised as an infant. No one here has addressed any real life issues related to having a foreskin. I had immense pain and problems with my foreskin growing up. Tearing, skin attached to glans, phimosis, urination problems and UTI's to mention a few. 4 of my friends growing up also had issues along these lines. 3 of us ended up having to get circumcised late teen early adult. These things are never mentioned by those of you that believe its mutilation. What I went through was molestation because my pediatrician believed in foreskins at all costs. I had to endure being prodded and stretched and having my foreskin yanked back and tearing the mucous off my glans that left me permanently scarred. Having been through that, having known others that had similar issues I cant support not being circumcised. A parent has a responsibility to do what is best for their child and we all believe that the medical community do so as well. I had no sex life to speak of before being circumcised. Not all foreskins are are what you would call bliss. Myself and my parents were misled by not one but two true intactivist pediatricians over the years. In looking at all the medical and scientific evidence, I support prevention just the way both the CDC and now the AMA are revisiting circumcision.
Hugh7, I cant agree at all with your colorblind comment. Circumcision gave me a sexual pleasure that I could not ever have had with a foreskin and many others feel the same too.
Stan Barnes
7:38 pm on Monday, June 6, 2011
I'm sorry you had medical problems with your foreskin, however medical problems with intact male genitals are very rare in Europe where they do not practice infant male circumcision.
If your pediatrician forcibly retracted your foreskin when you were a child, that was medical malpractice. It sounds like the doctors in your community failed to keep up to date on effective, non-invasive ways to treat the rare medical problems related to normal, intact male genitals.
Stan Barnes
7:48 pm on Monday, June 6, 2011
When a boy is born his foreskin is attached to his glans. It is similar to the way a kitten's eyes are closed when it is born. It is a harmful to forecibly retract a boy's foreskin in the same way it is harmful to forecibly open a kitten's eyes.
It usually takes several years for a boy's foreskin to naturally separate from the glans and become retractable. If it take until a boy has reached puberty that is within the normal range.