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Cop Life: Dorner Doesn't Scare Police, But This Does

A madman threatening cops doesn't scare them nearly as much as this.

Because I was once a police officer, an editor wrote a note today asking about threats from someone like Christopher Dorner.

When I was a robbery/homicide detective there were occasions when threats were issued. These people were dangerous, so we were more cautious in our daily activities. Of course in those days, the crooks had more courage, and wouldn’t think to go after an unarmed girl and her boyfriend just because her dad was a police officer. This will be the new definition of a coward. Threats will always remain a part of the policeman’s life.

Every day a police officer goes to work, there is a chance he or she will not return. I have finished my day in an Emergency Room bed thinking there must be a better way to make a living. This is no different than a person who works in a bank, a library or from a home office. Things happen and when it’s your time, it is your time. We choose our careers based on our skills, training and preferences.  Every job has its ups and downs. Police Officers ask for the job, nobody makes them do it. It is very competitive and many who wish to pursue the career are not selected. So something like Chris Dorner going after a police officer, while it will certainly get their attention, it is not a life/career changing event. There will
be changes in how they safeguard their families.

Chris Dorner is justifying his case, claiming police are corrupt.  Reading blogs in the last 24 hours, this seems to be a theme many people believe.  One blogger even compared the police to a gang where the code of silence was the order of the day.

As a police sergeant, I had experience in handling cases of police officers going off track. Despite what you see in the movies, on television and from attorneys trying to make money for a client who screwed up, the administrations always took immediate and definite actions.

In 13 years of service, I never saw an agency shy away from taking the correct action, even when it involved higher ranking staff. When you make a mistake in business they make an entry in your permanent record, when a police officer makes a mistake they get days off without pay.

Police are held to a high standard and most have an even higher moral standard.  It was always easy to investigate wrongdoing by a police officer. While a crook would deny, hedge and lie, a police officer generally admitted his transgressions.

There is one act that is more fearful than a mental case with a gun, and a grudge for perceived wrongs. Lawsuits can ruin an officer’s life and doom them to financial ruin.

In my personal experience, I was home in bed, asleep, on a night off, but one of my officers was involved in an altercation which resulted in a lawsuit.

In a normal civil action, if the officer is found to have disobeyed the law, or agency procedures, the government agency pays the loss. However, in my case they alleged punitive damages. Punitive damages are not allowed to be paid by outside sources, and must come from the officer’s personal assets. In this case, it was a $5 million lawsuit alleging negligent hiring, failure to properly train and failure to supervise.   

For the next three years every time I filled out a financial document, a security clearance, or anything else it was necessary to list there was a $5 million lawsuit with me named as a defendant.

Nobody asked if I was guilty. It did not matter. It was a fact that loaning me money was dangerous because if the case was lost, I was bankrupt. This case had no merit and was eventually dismissed. There was no reimbursement for the three years of stress and embarrassment.

This is one reason I left law enforcement. It was a good decision. Today’s law enforcement not only faces criminals, they face civil action, political action and special interest groups. In the final analysis, we always end up with the law enforcement we deserve.

So the answer to the editor's question, about how it affects police officers when they are hunted by a madman, is that in the long run it doesn’t.

They will be a little more cautious, a little more on edge and a little less trustful.  All this comes with the job. If Dorner really wanted to get revenge he would have involved punitive damages for his alleged wrongs.

John Webb February 11, 2013 at 03:59 pm
JustUs, you are always challenging people to do what you want. I asked you a specific question, what will you be doing to address this problem?
The tax payer always gets stuck wtih the bill. So how are you going to address the problem. I ran for Congress and my ideas did not win. Now it is your turn, what are you going to do?
JustUs February 11, 2013 at 04:08 pm
"JustUs, you are always challenging people to do what you want. I asked you a specific question, what will you be doing to address this problem?"
Let's get something straight right out of the gate, John Webb. I don't challenge people. I challenge their claims. You made certain claims. I proved you claims wrong with documented information. And you ran away from it. That says MUCH MORE about YOU than it does ME, sir. Exposing the problem is ALWAYS the first step to it's solution. I expose it while others attempt to conceal it. And that is an honorable first step to solving any problem in life. "The tax payer always gets stuck wtih the bill." ONCE AGAIN. You absolutely FAIL to acknowledge the LOWER STANDARDS (both morally and legally) are are inherent in police work as compared to those of us in the general population. I pointed out the LOWER STANDARD and you sidestep it and dismiss it. Hence, I will take whatever you write in the future with a grain of salt. You don't appear to be the same person you represent yourself to be. That is what I learned in this blog.
barkleyg February 15, 2013 at 03:15 pm
Mr. Webb
You seem like a shining example of what a Public Servant is supposed to be; ethical, moral, and knowledgable in the laws you have pledged to enforce. I am curious about which Law Emforcement agencies you worked for, and the highest rank you attained. Knowing the writers history regarding this opinion piece will give it more credibility.
John Webb February 15, 2013 at 04:01 pm
barklegy, thank you for the nice note. I started with the California Highway Patrol, later I moved to Huntington Beach Police Department which was seen as a very progressive police department on the cutting edge of using computers and being accountable to the community. I then started a business and left law enforcement for three years. After three years, I missed law enforcement and sold the business. I went to work for the Orange Police Department. I read an article where they connected their future pay to a downturn in crime. It was very interesting and I wanted to be part of what they were doing. I left there as a Sergeant to enter the insurance business. During my police career I was a traffic patrol officer, a street cop, a training officer, a detective and a public affairs officer. I'm very proud to have been a part of, what I consider, three very fine agencies which were committed to their roles in the community.
Dan Avery February 19, 2013 at 03:41 pm
There was a time in this country when The Dumb and the Willfully Ignorant worked on assembly lines and wanted nothing more when they got off work other than "Miller Time," a woman with a retarded sense of morality, and a double-wide they could call "home." Then came downsizing, outsourcing, Bush the Second's devaluation of the dollar, and the economic collapse of 2008.
Now The Dumb and the Willfully Ignorant are unemployable so they spend their days commenting on the Patch. Even when the article deals with topics they know nothing of; they live to spew their ignorance and hatred. They don't use their real names because they claim speaking your mind can be dangerous. Tell that to Martin Luther King, Jr. Malcolm X, Nathan Hale, Thomas Paine... They are cowards and like all cowards they bully if you point out their complete lack of logic. They ruin online communication and any chance we may have had to learn from each other. They are why the Patch will fail and our society will continue to crumble around us.
Dan Avery February 19, 2013 at 03:52 pm
Well-written piece, John. One of your better I think, but then that's just my politics talking I suppose. Too many people believe the cops are corrupt. Sure it happens. My older brother's most recent clients spent 33 years in prison for a murder the FBI had proof they didn't do the entire time. The same FBI turned over every piece of documentation readily even though it lost them the case and ended up in a $100 million dollar verdict for the clients.
Those types of abuses are great for movies and television shows; the public ends up thinking the system is corrupt, but it's far from that and those types of abuses are extremely rare. By the way, loved how you called out JustUs. He's every where and says nothing. And he pulled his "you're running away from me" game. Like the other readers will believe that. If one has followed JustUs's commenting on these boards and then thinks about what sort of hell an officer faces in an extremely long day, one can certainly understand why an officer might pull out their nightstick to adjust JustUs's attitude. Have fun, John. See you at the next blogger's meeting I hope.
JustUs February 19, 2013 at 04:06 pm
"By the way, loved how you called out JustUs. He's every where and says nothing. And he pulled his "you're running away from me" game. Like the other readers will believe that."
This little barfly seems to follow me no matter what room I enter. Honey....toss me the swatter again. And I think you got it backwards. Either that or your comprehension skills are lacking. JustUs called John out on certain issues and John failed to come out and play. Which is fine. That's his choice. But get your facts straight. I know that's asking alot from a guy like you though. :^) Cops are nothing but blue collar workers and used to be treated as such when I was a kid. For some odd reason today they are treated like kings who are immune from the laws and paid like medical doctors. Today it's almost like a political appointment based on connections. Naturally, the corrupted unions are partly to blame. But it takes a village. A man who receives heisted goods from a heister and afterwards maintains a 'code of silence' is just as responsible as the actual perpetrator. "Have fun, John. See you at the next blogger's meeting I hope." As vigorously as I disagree with John on some issues, I think he has way too much class for the likes of you. If you see him I'm pretty certain it would be from a distance. heh. :^)
John Webb February 19, 2013 at 06:08 pm
Actually Justus, a number of bloggers attend these meetings and we have a chance to better understand each others message. I would encourage you to join us each month, to exchange ideas, challenge each others thought processes and listen to one of the editors give us tips on being more effective. I hate meetings, but try to attend these each month, because there is always something to learn. Even though Dan and I disagree a lot, he is sincere in his presentation and I love hearing both sides of every argument.
JustUs February 19, 2013 at 06:23 pm
I go to church occasionally mainly to keep the wife happy and for the entertainment, John. I like to see what new gowns the priests wear and listen to their sermons for hints of where they stand on current issues. I couldn't care less about what Abraham did back in the BC years. I want to know where they stand on Obamacare, amnesty and gun control. They play their cards pretty close to the vest on those matters since they don't want to lose more flock members to the Protestants. But sometimes I strike gold around election time. They might not come right out and tell the flock how to vote - but the inferences are quite blatant for those who can connect the dots.
So if I came to your little gathering I would not show up to learn anything. My opinions are based on researched facts. And until those facts change - my opinion remains intact. If the facts change, then I have an open mind. If someone could show me evidence that Frankenstein was a philanthropist my opinion of him would change in a NYC minute. I have no pride when it comes to that type of thing. But thank you for your invitation. If I were to show up it (which I likely wouldn't) would be for the entertainment and the finger foods. If Dan were there I wouldn't give him the time of day. I have failed to encounter a tool on the comment boards as large as Dan. I'm sure there are some out there. I just haven't crossed paths with him or her yet. I am only one person and can't be everywhere.
Chris McLaughlin February 19, 2013 at 06:31 pm
Hold up, what's this about finger foods?? Did I miss a memo??
jim capistrano February 19, 2013 at 06:50 pm
...I feel that just to keep the subject topical, I should remind people that we still have a dead Marine that was unarmed and shot point-blank by an OC sheriff in front of his children. Where does this stand....as that news cycle has passed and we're discussing the following police riot in Torrance...
JustUs February 19, 2013 at 07:36 pm
Jim, this is how I think the Sgt. Loggins case ends (I base this on a consensus of all similar cases that I've followed):
(1) No evidentiary material will be released for public viewing. Not the dashcam or anything else, even though the Kelly Thomas beating video was released. Not enough public pressure. (It's got nothing to do with legalities). The intention is to hide the facts. (2) The media will not further question the OCSD about this case. The media will claim that they haven't mentioned it for a long time because OCSD has not offered any additional information. So instead of digging and doing their own investigation, like the media should do, they play the part of the passive victims who are being stalemated. Out of sight, out of mind. (3) After months or even years with no new news out of the blue you will see a little blurb in the news that a settlement has been reached. No immediate details on the settlement amount. It will be hard to bury but they will try. Anaheim buried their settlement with the family of the black gentlemen Julian Alexander who the APD shot dead while he was standing on his front porch in 2008. They hid it (of course they claim inadvertently). That settlement was for about $2M. I suspect the Loggins settlement will be for MUCH MUCH more than that. (4) Once the settlement is reached all evidence will be buried from the public. (5) The PO Bill of RIghts will preclude disclosure of discipline against the officers. End of story.
Dan Avery February 19, 2013 at 08:55 pm
John,
What a boring world it would be if we both agreed on everything. One needs to listen and hear both sides of an argument. If only to solidify one's views. What I miss about teaching the most was taking the opposite side from each student's argument in conferences to help them learn how to think more fully and to help them make their arguments as strong as they could be. That is, once they got past relying on general, meaningless sentences. The law enforcement officers were always the better writers in my class. You guys are trained to notice specific details and it's those details which make writing communicate something. My new piece is on Obama. You might enjoy it. http://missionviejo.patch.com/blog_posts/presidential-whack-a-human
Dan Avery February 19, 2013 at 08:57 pm
Finger-foods? Did Pete quit springing for Pizza? How sad! I shall have to speak with him about that. LOL
Chris McLaughlin February 19, 2013 at 09:06 pm
Hi Jim,
Where the Loggins killing case stands is that the killer, Officer Darren Sandberg, has been found non-guilty by reason of deciding not to prosecute by the OC DA's office (that was last September, you can download the findings/letter from the DA from the OCDA's website) , and the family of the deceased is pursuing a civil case against OCSD, the City of San Clemente, and probably Darren Sandberg personally. Where I stand on it is that I want to press the OC Board of Supervisor's to release the dashcam videotape of the killing to the public. (You know, The People who paid for it.) Their next meeting is next Tuesday, Feb 26th, in Santa Ana. Who knows where Patch stands on it. They haven't published anything on it in a while. I wish they would try to get more of the school's security camera video from the night and night's proceeding the tragedy to corroborate everyone who knew him's testimony that he used to take his kids there regularly and that the gate was never locked before. If that videotape shows Sandberg checking to see if the gate was locked earlier that night, and there's evidence that he checked it before and saw that it wasn't kept locked, and that he followed up with the school to make sure it was locked, then this incident looks less like a surprise traffic stop, and more like an ambush.
Dan Avery February 21, 2013 at 01:05 am
"And police work is not even ranked in the top 10 most dangerous jobs in America. So the 'danger card' really doesn't wash either. " I would love to see your source for that. Oh I forgot. You know facts and never substantiate them. And you think people don't see through you?
Dan Avery February 21, 2013 at 01:07 am
"And your referenced personal situation, re: the lawsuit, is certainly not the norm." Aside from being an incomplete sentence which is pathetic for someone who boasts of his intellectual superiority, it's a nonsense statement. Lawsuits are not the norm. Any lawyer will tell you that. And most lawsuits result in small awards. What a complete moron this guy is.
Dan Avery February 21, 2013 at 01:09 am
"And this only continues the vicious cycle so that police feel they can violate rights and transfer any responsibility to the taxpayers." Seriously, you need to prove these statements. I have a lot of friends in the OC Sheriffs Department. they don't agree with this. I know because I sent it to them. I also sent them your real name and address. It wasn't hard to find out what that was JustUs.
Dan Avery February 21, 2013 at 01:11 am
Okay here's a completely meaningless and general statement "The problem is that many or most cops and retired cops refuse to acknowledge the problem." Repeating "problem" twice in a short sentence? Who taught you to write? Oh I forget you dropped out of high school and currently live off your wife. That's right. My bad.
Dan Avery February 21, 2013 at 01:12 am
"Think of all the people who have been arrested by cops based on trumped up charges, some of whom have been convicted based on perjured testimonies." Again with the incomplete sentence and overly general statement. Man, do you even have a mind capable of analysis?
Dan Avery February 21, 2013 at 01:13 am
"Your brothers of the badge or society in general." Whoa! Another incomplete sentence. Does this JustUs even know what he's talking about? Holy cow. Where was this dude born. We need to tighten our borders for sure.
Dan Avery February 21, 2013 at 01:16 am
Actually there is considerable doubt about this "But there is no doubt that cops protect their own, as you implied in your statement. I do not doubt that in the least." The FBI turned over every piece of incriminating evidence to my brother who had four clients that did 33 years in prison for a murder the FBI had proof they didn't do the entire time. 3 of the guys died in prison. The fourth is out and he and the families of the other three were awarded $100 million for it. If there was no doubt cops protect their own the FBI would simply have shredded the evidence. JustUs is just another paranoid fool.
Dan Avery February 21, 2013 at 01:19 am
"There will be a massive settlement behind closed doors to the tune of at least $5M." Since when is $5 million massive? For a cold-blooded execution in front of his own daughters? That's the way JustUs describes it. Any lawyer worth his degree could get $50 to $100 million for something like that. Didn't happen. JustUs is a crackhead high on his own paranoia.
Dan Avery February 21, 2013 at 01:21 am
"When you make these statements it's really hard for me to believe that you were a cop." People do we really care what is hard for JustUs to believe. And this is his best argument in the entire comment. The rest is rubbish. I know because I taught argumentation for 18 years at the University of California, Irvine. This man is a nutcase. Trust me.
Dan Avery February 21, 2013 at 01:22 am
"There are 310M civilian firearms on the streets in America. Almost as many guns as there are Americans. If the corrupted politicians should ever ban guns all I can say is good luck collecting them." Boy now there is a cogent argument if I've ever heard one. The authorities ought to lock this clown up before he hurts himself.
Dan Avery February 21, 2013 at 01:23 am
yeah, one example makes Webb's claim bogus. Please. Someone talk this fool down. One example is the argument of a desperate man trying to impress us with his limited knowledge.
Dan Avery February 21, 2013 at 01:24 am
yeah and I will quadruple down that your iq score is in the low two digits. What is that? No one wants to take that bet cause they will lose? Oh well.
Dan Avery February 21, 2013 at 01:26 am
"I have lived most of my life." That is a classic example of a sentence from a confused mind. He has only lived most of his life? Seriously? What about the part he didn't live? Why isn't that going on now? Oh Lord, please take this man into the part of his life he didn't live. Pretty please God and spare us from his ignorance.
Dan Avery February 21, 2013 at 01:28 am
"You don't have to be Perry Mason to see all the flaws in this case, Chris." For those of us who live in reality, Perry Mason was one of the most inaccurate law shows of all times.
Dan Avery February 21, 2013 at 01:29 am
"This is why I am so concerned for our society and the direction it has taken." Here is why I'm so concerned for our society and the direction it has taken: http://missionviejo.patch.com/blog_posts/why-online-discussion-fails

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Julie, Brady, and Brad McGirr Participating in the Flag Retiring Ceremony
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