RANCHO SANTA MARGARITA, CA -- “A Charlie Brown Christmas” has been a holiday TV classic for years. So when students at Terry Elementary School in Little Rock, Ark., were invited on a class field trip to see a performance of the show this December, they were excited. But their excitement was quickly quenched when a parent complained; an atheist group got wind of the outing and called it a “violation of religious freedom” because it contains some religious content and will be performed at a church.
The school sent a letter home to the parents detailing the field trip and letting them know that it did, indeed, contain a small amount of religious content but that any child who wished not to go could be exempt from attending. The outing also included a food drive for area food pantries, which parents hope students will not miss out on if the outing is cancelled.
Schools around the nation have dealt with similar anti-Christmas sentiments. In Alabama, a group of 5- to 7- year -olds were asked not to sing “Silent Night” in their Christmas program because it was considered “unconstitutional.” The school overrode the complaint and students will be allowed to perform as planned. But in Davis, Cal., students at Emerson Junior High encountered a different outcome when the play they planned to perform, Charles Dickens’ “ A Christmas Carol,” was banned because of—you guessed it—the word “Christmas.”
The list goes on. In Stockton, the school district warned teachers not to put up any poinsettias, Christmas trees or other decorations that would be considered festive, just to make sure they did not offend anyone. And in Fort Worth, Texas, Santa was banned from classrooms because his visit was considered “endorsing religious activity.” The ban was later overturned and the schools agreed Santa could come to the schools but not enter the classrooms.
Contrast these times with the 1950s, when many kids performed in nativity plays at school, complete with Mary, Joseph and baby Jesus in the manger. Now, in places like Santa Monica, the mere sight of a nativity scene on public property is reason for outcry. In an age of “over-political correctness” have schools and cities taken things too far and taken the fun and meaning out of a holiday that’s been celebrated worldwide for years and years?
“We still talk about Kwanza, Hanukkah, Ramadan and the pagan celebration of winter solstice,” one blogger mom wrote. “I have no problem with exposing my children to those cultural holidays, but in fairness, shouldn’t we be able to discuss the origins of Christmas as well?”
Surprisingly, a Rasmussen Reports national television survey showed that 68 percent of most Americans still preferred the traditional greeting, “Merry Christmas” during the season. Yet most store employees and school teachers have been required to now use the less offensive “Happy Holidays” approach. A Christmas break is no longer called such at most schools; it is referred to as a holiday or winter break, merely due to the religious implications of the word. So are we really so offended after all?
I believe in God and celebrate Christmas with my family, yet I respect others’ views as well. However, I have yet to meet one person in my entire life who was offended by a poinsettia, a nativity scene, a Christmas cookie or—Heaven forbid—Santa Claus himself! For some reason, I can’t picture a 6-year-old child growing horrified upon seeing a wreath on his teacher’s door. It seems a shame that we’ve taken not just the “Christmas” but the “Merry” out of so much of this special holiday season because of a few Grinches who insist on spoiling the fun for the kids.
Interestingly, no one seemed too “offended” when Black Friday shopping this year, as they piled their carts high with bargain brand named clothes, electronics and must-have toys. And no one yet has complained about the fact that Christmas is a Federal Holiday for all employees. Perhaps if we were being truly politically correct we should re-open the post office and send kids to school on December 25.
I’m being facetious, of course.
Parents, what do you think? Do you think schools should celebrate Christmas in the classrooms? And what of the schools that have banned certain plays, songs, decorations and activities? Do you think they’ve taken things too far, or do you think they’ve done the right thing?
We want to hear from you!
"Why? The latter has evidence, that can be independently verified to parts in trillion. The former, well, what evidence do you have that Lord Ganesha was really created from a slain boy and an elephant's head by Lord Shiva?" What? I have no clue as to who Lord Ganesha is. You must be thinking of someone else. Remember, the big bang theory is a theory. THEORIES are theories. Explosions cause chaos not order. Man and the earth and surroundings are far too complex to be created out of chaos. The creation of DNA alone is very complex. "Please be respectful and acknowledge Lord Ganesha as the one who removes obstacles in people's lives." Respectful of what? I am a Christian the remover of my obstacles is my faith in God. Are you asking me to convert to another faith? Or are you being sarcastic?
Not that you are making much sense, but where the heck did you ever get the impression that I don't believe in your right to worship / practice your faith / live you mythology as you so choose (as long as (1) It doesn't hurt others and (2) is not supported in any way by the secular state?)? WE NEVER WERE A CHRISTIAN NATION! I can excuse you reading into my words what you want, but I will not excuse ignorance of history. You can choose to be ignorant of history. You can choose to believe a myth that at some point the United States was a Christian nation. But MOST of the founding fathers of this country were in office and voted for the Treaty of Tripoli (and one signed it as President). So, please be as ignorant of the history of the country as you want, but don't get upset when someone corrects your ignorance. You ascribe to me a feeling for you that is not correct. "so much hatred coming from your direction" - Hatred would require as much passion for the people it is aimed at as love does.I don't hate ignorant people. I do pity them. Because I have some small amount of empathy, I attempt to actually teach them the facts from the fiction (not about their embrace of their chosen mythology, that's their business. I worry that they may actually pollute young minds with misinformation, like "the United States is/was a Christian nation".).
Does not matter. The fact that the treaty was approved by a body that consisted of founders does not change what they said about Christianity in there. The treaty was not made to establish non-Christian nature of the nation at birth, it was to prevent hostilities. The note about the non-Christian nature was just that, an observation. When a treaty is violated, it does not change observations. Try again. Try harder.
Yes, apples are apples. APPLES are apples. THEORIES are theories. Any more tautologies? "Man and the earth and surroundings are far too complex to be created out of chaos. The creation of DNA alone is very complex." Please provide evidence, your personal incredulity is not even a theory. Peddling creationism does not serve as a substitute. "Respectful of what?" Respectful of Lord Ganesha.
Yes, Julie dear, there were people already living here and they had mythologies that they believed in. Then the people that came here were people that were leaving from places where they could not worship as they chose. Yet, colonial church membership was relatively low--rarely higher than a third of adult New Englanders and as low as five percent of adults in the South. You may have heard of these deists: Thomas Jefferson, Benjamin Franklin, Cornelius Harnett, Gouverneur Morris, Hugh Williamson, James Madison, Alexander Hamilton, Ethan Allen and Thomas Paine. Also Elihu Palmer If you don't understand why Deism is NOT Christianity, study. Jefferson was so upset with Christianity that he rewrote the bible. One would hope that you would understand that people that were used to having the government persecute them for their religious beliefs would want to establish a place where the government has NOTHING to do with endorsing any religious belief system. Even as simple an endorsement of monotheism would be abhorrent to people that had to flee from government oppression because they had a different belief system from the "will of the majority" that the government endorsed. If you actually took the time to study rather than "quickie research", you would understand a great deal more about the history of this country.
Yep, a bunch of illiterates, most of whom signed the DoI, the Constitution or were deeply involved in getting their state to agree to the Constitution, signed a treaty that was years in the making without reading or understanding what was involved in the treaty. That's your best defense. That the founding fathers of this nation were a bunch of idiots?
Charlie Brown gets depressed and psychotic after getting shamelessly bullied by a bunch of girls, who laugh and say that he's a "blockhead" and "can't do anything right". Even CB's own dog laughs at him. Anyway, then his best friend Linus gets preachy and tells the distraught Charlie Brown about the true meaning of Christmas. Yes, Linus gets it completely wrong by quoting the Gospel of Luke and totally leaving out Saturnalia, but whatever. Charles M. Schulz was an artist and entertainer, not a historian. But do ideals like vicarious redemption, scapegoating and blood sacrifice belong in the public schools? I say yes. So long as they just hum it.
So I'm done with this conversation. You want to rationalize it to death because you've read some books. Faith is not this way. You have your beliefs. Personally, I don't care who is Christian or not. I am not out to convert atheists because personally they, like you, suck the life out of me. I can't afford that. I have far more responsibilities that are more worthwhile. I know what my beliefs are and I find it to be foolish to not allow children to watch a Charlie Brown Christmas play. You have blown this whole thing out of proportion because you live your life to fight with Christians. I live my life to serve Christians and people of my church. It is far less complicated. You can't research faith to death. Either you have it or you don't. You don't. I wish you well. I have a congregation to serve and you can read into that any way you wish.
- Charlie: I guess you were right Linus; I shouldn't have picked this little tree. Everything I do turns into a disaster. I guess I don't really know what Christmas is about. Isn't there anyone who understands what Christmas is all about? Linus: Sure, I can tell you what Christmas is all about. Linus goes to center stage, spotlight. Linus: "And there were in the same country Shepards abiding in the field, keeping watch over their flock by night. And lo, the angel of the Lord came upon them, and the glory of the Lord shone round about them, and they were sore afraid. And the angel said unto them, 'fear not, for behold, I bring you tidings of great joy which will be to all people. For unto you is born this day in the city of David a savior, which is Christ the Lord. And this shall be a sign unto you. Ye shall find the babe wrapped in swaddling clothes lying in the manger.' And suddenly, there was with the angel a multitude of the heavenly host, praising God and saying, 'glory to God in the highest, and on Earth peace, good will toward men.'" Linus picks up blanket, walks back to piano. Linus: That's what Christmas is all about, Charlie Brown. Silence. Charlie picks up tree, smiles. Walks outside, stares at sky. - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BPHv9KqpgqM
"First, schools banned Halloween." So, we know what was first. First meaning before anything else. Before this so-called war on Christmas which has now spilled over into Thanksgiving with the rush for shopping for Christmas. Schools banning Halloween. Now, why would schools ban Halloween? Well it was Los Gatos, that liberal bastion of godlessness that banned a pagan ritual. Does that sound right to you? That godless, anti-Christian liberals would ban a pagan ritual and not Christmas? Here: http://bit.ly/SHjQgN
Hmmm, let's see the reference work... study of diaries, missionary reports sent back to England, and other fragmentary evidence... I wasn't there, but I can do some basic research and see the works of other researchers who have gone through various pieces of evidence of those that were. "You have blown this whole thing out of proportion because you live your life to fight with Christians" Amazing. I thought I lived my life to provide for my family. You seem to know everything about me from my postings on here. You think I'm anti-Christian. That's because that's all you see. You see everything through the lens of your BLIND faith. It's hard to see through anything "blind". Forgetting my personal belief system as it is none of your business (and you have no idea what "faith" I may or may not have), I am a vocal critic of those that think their faith is the ultimate truth and insist on practicing it in public, and wanting the endorsement of the government (either explicitly or implicitly). While you serve a "congregation", I'll continue to serve mankind. Even those who are mistakenly under the impression that they have the ultimate Truth, like yourself. I will ensure your freedom by making sure that NO "faith" has any government support. In a secular society you too are protected.
I would prefer to NOT know a darn thing about your personal faith. That's why they call it "personal". I would rather everyone kept it that way. You tell me about it, I get to make fun of and ridicule it. And I will. "You are tied up to what your tax dollar spends and making others look bad to make yourself feel better." Correct until your "and". I don't want my tax dollars going to useless wars. I don't want my tax dollars spent on promoting mythology. I do want my tax dollars going to research, education, the well being of the country and the public good. " If you do serve mankind when was the last time you helped someone who really needed help?" Define "really needed help". I help people all the time. From the kids I coach in football to the students I coach and the organizations I write free software for. My daughter graduates this year with over 1000 hours of community service (less than .5% of HS grads) she had to learn that somewhere. My son just started tutoring others for free (age 12) in math (he is getting A's in geometry in 7th grade). "It also happens to be a basic Christian belief." Yes, I know, they helped so much during the Crusades. And let us not forget how helpful they were during the Inquisition. Considering how much death can be placed on the tip of the sword with Jesus' name, I find that conclusion highly laughable.
Yes, and if there are Christians who believe that the mention of just those things in comments limited to 1,500 characters, to a post, represents the entirely of the author's knowledge, then, someone else's knowledge is likewise seriously lacking. "It is basically the same as claiming to know higher mathematics but not realizing that higher math comes with comes with letters and zeros." No, it is nothing like that straw man "At the heart of Christianity is peace, love and forgiveness." Someday, we may even find that heart. Till then we can go with how Christians behave. Witness their comments here. "Muslims will never become a majority religion,we will wipe them out first." "Well, looks like someone whizzed in Chuckies Cheerios this morning." "Another intelligent idiot!!" "YOU PROBABLY DONT HAVE ANY KIDS. OR YOY WERE ABUSED AS A CHILD>" "You are full of C$$$ What's wrong with you nutty politically correct idiots??" "ARE YOU SUGGESTING THAT THEY BE EXPOSED TO THE MUSLIM SECT?" "I love how you libs are out to destroy religion in all forms." "Dude you are such an Idiot." "You should check on leaving the US just as soon as possible . Your a Heartless Individual." It just oozes, doesn't it? I know, I know, they may not be true Christians.
"you are welcome to your beliefs and I am enough of a grown mature adult with enough manners not to ridicule anyone for it." That's because you don't have any idea what I believe. Because I keep my "personal faith" - well - "personal". I may teach it to my kids. I may share it with others in my place of worship. I may, on occasion share some part of it with someone over a nice cigar while we talk about life and our personal philosophy. But I don't promote the crap out of it. I prefer to be judged by others based on my actions, not on the mythology I profess to be a "Truth" to me. Throughout this thread I have made clear that I respect a persons "personal faith". If you get to that place rubbing green mud in your navel. great for you. If you find solace in times of trouble by getting inner strength from your mythology, more power to you. But do NOT expect the State to endorse, either explicitly or implicitly, your myths. And do expect others to object to state endorsement, as well as objecting to any suggestion that this melting pot of a country is anything but secular. If someone can't accept that this is a secular society because the founders saw the failure of nations that in any way endorse one faith system over any other, then they deserve to be put in their place. One last time, "personal faith" = good and "public faith" = bad.
Rick, if we had that, and I do support high school electives on comparative mythology, I would be overjoyed. Maybe then we would be able to dissuade people of the fantasy that Buddhism is a religion (it's not. It is a life philosophy, but it doesn't have in it the concept of worship or of G-d and therefor is not a religion). For instance, every "religion" has a series of tale on "how we got here". These creation myths are all different, but all attempt to address how and why man is on the earth. A great deal about a society can be found by study of these myths. Are the myths matriarchal or patriarchal? Do the include a myth about the god(s) creation as well as mans? How does this reflect the structure of the society at the time? Are their god(s) reflective of the society and the rules of the society at that time, or are they different? What powers have the endued the god(s) with? Is there one god, a figure head, and then lesser god(s)? These courses look at everything from ancient mythologies to current ones. But it seems that the people that object the loudest to these courses being taught are.... wait for it.... religious Christians. Me? I'm all for it. Now get an evangelical to agree. May Darwin keep and protect you at the fountain of knowledge.